Think global, feel local: How insight powers cultural relevance

[00:00:00] Nataly Kelly: Welcome to Inside Insight, where marketing strategy meets consumer truth with your host, Nataly Kelly. Whether you're in B2B or B2C, a strong brand is more than awareness. It's fuel for growth. Research shows brands with cultural relevance get a 70% lift in recall, are 40% more likely to be considered, and even close deals 20% faster. But cultural relevance isn't automatic. To connect today, brands have to stay globally consistent and locally relatable.

[00:00:31] Nataly Kelly: I'm Nataly Kelly and this is Inside Insights. My guest today is Katherine Melchior Ray, a global brand leader who's led marketing for some of the world's most iconic names like Nike, Louis Vuitton, Gucci, Hyatt, and Shiseido across the U.S., Europe, and Asia. Oh, and she's also my co-author. We recently released our new book, Brand Global, Adapt Local, just a few short months ago. So today, Katherine and I are going to talk about how consumer insights help brands go beyond one size fits all, building cultural fluency so their stories travel well and resonate deeply wherever they land.

[00:01:06] Nataly Kelly: Katherine, welcome to Inside Insights. I'm so excited to have you on the show.

[00:01:10] Katherine Melchior Ray: Nataly, this is just so much fun. We're going to talk about so many great things and I can't wait for it.

[00:01:17] Nataly Kelly: That's awesome. So, can you start by giving my listeners here a little bit more information about yourself and your background?

[00:01:24] Katherine Melchior Ray: Yeah. Well, thank you for that lovely introduction. You sort of gave the winning list of all the brands that I've worked for. It didn't start out that way. Obviously, you start one at a time. But it's true. I have worked in global marketing for Nike, Louis Vuitton, Gucci, Hyatt, Shiseido, Mabel. It turns out that it's actually across five different industries, so fashion and retail, cosmetics, beauty, hospitality, and tech, which is kind of unusual. And the other part that's pretty unusual is that I've worked across five different cultures and countries.

[00:01:57] Katherine Melchior Ray: So I've spent a lot of years abroad. I've actually spent about 12 years working abroad. And so a lot of my ideas and experience come from how to build brands in these different cultures with a lot of just on-the-ground experience of doing that while I'm living in a foreign culture, often with my husband and children.

[00:02:17] Nataly Kelly: Wow. Well, I love your story and I love your background. As you know, I first learned about you in a Wall Street Journal article back in 2014. It was called "Hyatt Hotels Executive Has a Spare Evening Gown in Her Bag." So I have been following your career since then, which is why it's such an honor to have written this with you. Very excited to dive in and talk more about it and all of the great lessons that you can share with our listeners. So my first question for you, Katherine, today is, what is an example of a consumer insights team or approach that helps brands uncover the real cultural drivers behind purchase decisions?

[00:02:55] Katherine Melchior Ray: Okay. Yeah. You know, one thing I actually want to mention, I kind of forget that what I'm doing now, which is not only did I write the book, but I teach at Berkeley Haas Business School, and that's actually how I met you. So you're nice to introduce how you met me, but I think everyone should also know that I met you because I read your Harvard Business Review story about blind spots. And in fact, I found it not knowing you because I use it in my opening class because I thought these are such clear, easy takeaways.

[00:03:25] Katherine Melchior Ray: Like, not all regions are countries. You know, if you talk about Asia, you have all these different countries in it. And I thought this was a really great way to help my students start to understand. So it's a mutual joy to be working together.

[00:03:38] Katherine Melchior Ray: Okay, but to your question. Well, I think one of the most impactful and early lessons I learned was when I was at Nike. So I ran women's footwear back in the day. Yes, believe it or not, when Nike used to say for women's shoes, "shrink it and pink it," true. It's true. They did this. And so while that wasn't so great, what they did do in terms of insights was really memorable. We would have regional sales meetings every half year or every quarter where we would do several things.

[00:04:08] Katherine Melchior Ray: We brought all of the senior leaders together and we were showing all the new products, of course. But what everyone really wanted to see was the new advertising. What was going to be the new Wyden Kennedy campaign for that season? But at the second most in-demand presentation at these sales meetings was Consumer Insights.

[00:04:28] Katherine Melchior Ray: And it was really amazing. I mean, it was like, drum roll, you know, it was everyone. And here are all of these Nike leaders who are passionate about consumers and athletes. And it was not only the insights that they got, but it was how they presented them. So they did lots of research, obviously, on premier professional athletes, but they also would interview, you know, the people who are just working really, really hard on their sport.

[00:04:49] Katherine Melchior Ray: And they would show videos. They would get up on stage and they would show videos of, let's say, a sprinter and all of her exercise that she was doing. All the time. All the time, all the time. And her mentality and how she lived and what she ate and what, how she would get hurt and what was important to her and what was important in her shoes and in her sleep.

[00:05:13] Katherine Melchior Ray: And it was this kind of, I think it was twofold. One, it was the deep storytelling that the Insights team did and the way that they presented it to our teams and it was really, it was really exciting. So that made all of us in the audience very, very passionate about our athlete and wanting to understand everything about her or him or they and, and how to really create products that would be meaningful for them. And if it was meaningful for them, it should be meaningful for all the athletes all the way up and down the professional and nonprofessional strata.

[00:05:45] Nataly Kelly: Wow. I love that story. It makes me think of the Insights team as kind of like on center stage with everybody kind of with their popcorn just like waiting to hear what they're going to say about the consumer and the insights that they've drawn through their research. So that I love that. It kind of lifts up the insights function.

[00:06:01] Nataly Kelly: So I wanted to ask you another question about blockers. So can you share some of the biggest blockers that you hear from CMOs and other business leaders about global brand consistency and how does it actually hurt local connection?

[00:06:15] Katherine Melchior Ray: Well, I don't know if I would say that the other marketing leads are the blockers. I think most marketing people get it. They realize that our job is to understand the audience. And that audience may be someone like you. Most likely it's someone who's not like you.

[00:06:29] Katherine Melchior Ray: So you're really working hard to try to understand the other. But I don't think everyone is as focused on it that way. And I think that's where you end up having challenges. And so I think that often for a CMO, you know, your two best friends have to be your CEO and your CFO, because if the CEO has to be championing, they don't have to be a marketing expert, but they have to believe in marketing. Because while marketing has increasingly become very data-driven, and I think data is super important, you also like, we cannot create a perfectly defined numerical analysis as to how much broader brand awareness will aid in conversion around the world.

[00:07:06] Katherine Melchior Ray: Believe you me, I have tried. People have tried. But it's clear in the broader sections. But we just don't have the numerical number of how much more awareness you might need. So you have to have support at the C suite.

[00:07:18] Katherine Melchior Ray: Obviously your CFO is key because budget is power and how you learn to manage a budget is really key. And sometimes it doesn't all come out exactly the way it needs to be. And you need that flexibility. Having a good CFO who will help you with that is critical.

[00:07:33] Nataly Kelly: Yes, definitely. And it seems to me sometimes you can find little gems of insights that allow you as a marketer to do experiments or tests around that to kind of prove the business case in some cases to get past some of those internal blockers if you can't unlock more budget or you can't get buy-in from other C-level executives. Seems like consumer insights can really help there in those cases.

[00:07:54] Katherine Melchior Ray: Yeah, I think consumer insights definitely help, but again, they want to know if I'm going to put this much money into marketing, how much is it going to give me in a return over time? And you know, you could scale that when you're, when you're at a certain level, but if you're too small, you can't do it because you might grow too quickly. And if you're too big, the return starts to not look so good.

[00:08:14] Katherine Melchior Ray: So you've got to really balance the size where you are as a business in terms of growth and how much risk you're willing to take. And risk actually is a very cultural value. How much risk you're willing to take. I, I'm actually in Europe at the moment and we were talking about it because American companies, and not only American companies, but European startups too, if they have American-based investors, they're usually willing to take more risk. If you have European investors, they're not as willing to take risk.

[00:08:41] Katherine Melchior Ray: And so you're seeing that, that risk issue that can be play up in a corporate environment just as much as in the investor environment makes a huge difference for how much latitude you have in marketing.

[00:08:53] Nataly Kelly: Yes. And it also may depend on the maturity and the, how long the company has been around as well. You know, the risk. You know, we would like to think as marketers that we can mitigate risk through data, but it's not always just the quantitative, it's the qualitative.

[00:09:08] Nataly Kelly: So it's a really interesting observation that you make about how European companies behave versus, you know, American. And also it does really depend on their funding type and where their, where their investors are based.

[00:09:18] Katherine Melchior Ray: Where their investors are based. Yeah. You know, and it's interesting because I teach at Berkeley and so a lot of my students either came from Silicon Valley or they're wanting to go to Silicon Valley.

[00:09:28] Katherine Melchior Ray: And I find marketing has kind of a bad rap in, in tech. And I'm, I'm like, why? I mean, you heard the brands that I work for. They're all. They all harness marketing to final brand value.

[00:09:41] Katherine Melchior Ray: I mean, that's the ultimate. That's the ultimate balance sheet, right? Is what is your brand worth? And they know marketing works. And I've realized that, you know, when you're talking to tech companies, often, at least I find this in the Bay Area, people think about engineering and students want to become product.

[00:09:58] Katherine Melchior Ray: Product managers or product marketers. But when you talk about it like, I don't really care what place you put someone's, what team they go to, as long as they're thinking about the consumer. What does the consumer want? What does he or she need? What are their aspirations.

[00:10:13] Katherine Melchior Ray: What are their unmet needs? And then, you know, that's all marketing. Whether they're sitting on the product team or whether they're sitting in a marketing team or whether they're sitting on the finance team.

[00:10:23] Nataly Kelly: That's right. That's such a great observation. It's interesting because it seems that consumer insights can benefit all of those teams, but often work most closely with just specific teams. And the marketers are often a very major stakeholder influencer. To your point of why does marketing have that reputation? I think it's a patience issue because a lot of tech companies are in a hurry to grow. They want to see really quick results, especially when they're smaller.

[00:10:46] Nataly Kelly: And, and marketing and building brand awareness does take time. And often they can't see the instant results. We have an instant gratification society. They want you to launch an ad, see the dollars come in. Like they, you know, it's almost like there's no tolerance for how long it takes to have that repeatability and build that, you know, memory.

[00:11:07] Nataly Kelly: So I think that maybe why there's such a. Not a hatred, but maybe like impatience.

[00:11:13] Katherine Melchior Ray: A great word for it, I think is also, I think just marketing has a bad name in that. And I, I think, you know, I don't really care about the name. Right. It's. It's the mindset that's important. So if people can learn the mindset to understand a consumer and how to really involve that into all the product creation, distribution, communication, then great. In fact, the funny thing is that my students usually come out of class going, oh, my God, I thought marketing was this. And I've learned it's all of this.

[00:11:42] Nataly Kelly: Yeah. So now it's how to build a business. It's a. It's fundamental to building a business.

[00:11:50] Katherine Melchior Ray: It is fundamental. And so now I actually split it into two kinds. And I say, and I like to say, you know, there are really two kinds of marketing. There's all the tactical marketing that you're thinking about, you know, promotion and performance marketing and PR and website and blah, blah, blah. But there's all the strategic marketing. And all of this stuff is the stuff that's further up a stream that is really working about who's our target, what are their needs, what kind of business should we be in.

[00:12:18] Katherine Melchior Ray: And that's really important. And it's very important that that is shared around the organization.

[00:12:25] Nataly Kelly: Definitely. Well, that actually leads nicely to my next question for you. It seems like many global brands struggle with seeing cultural signals that could make or break their local relevance.

[00:12:36] Nataly Kelly: Do you have any examples that come to mind when thinking about cultural signals that could make or break local relevance?

[00:12:42] Katherine Melchior Ray: Yes, I do. This is a story that's in our book and it's one I also teach. And it actually is a company that comes from Silicon Valley too. So it's about Airbnb and it's quite an eye-opening story and lesson about Airbnb going into China.

[00:12:58] Katherine Melchior Ray: So you can just figure it out. Obviously, Airbnb, hot companies, tech savvy, new business model about how shifting how we consume hotels and China with a digitally savvy, large growing middle class that's doing more travel is obviously the, you can see the fit there in terms of the desire to go into China. Well, it invested a lot and even had, we were speaking of investors, it even had strategic investors from China. But despite enormous investments, despite changing its name, despite doing research, it still struggled with Chinese consumers being comfortable with a couple things. First of all, there was a financial challenge, is not, there wasn't a real credit system the way we have today.

[00:13:38] Katherine Melchior Ray: So, you know, giving your credit card and having a credit rating so that customers could take the leap of faith of something they were going to see online and that they could pay for it. And that for the hosts themselves to think that those people were going to be able to pay for it and they would be good for it. Both sides didn't work really well without a credit system. The other thing is that the consumers weren't really comfortable with two things. One is, could they trust the photographs in the listings?

[00:14:10] Katherine Melchior Ray: Did they really believe that? And this is before all the fake news too, right? So this is, this was about 10 years ago when they went into China. But there was a real lack of trust in what was being shown and in who was behind it. Was this really a person's home or was it a business's home?

[00:14:26] Katherine Melchior Ray: Is it going to be clean. And the cleanliness issue became not just for the going side, but also on the leaving side. You know, you're supposed to kind of clean, lean a little bit up after you go because you get rated for it. But that too, Chinese consumers who work so hard were saying, like, the last thing I want to do is go on vacation, pay to stay here, and then have to clean up after me. And so these multiple challenges, one after another after another, became such that eventually Airbnb actually pulled out.

[00:14:56] Katherine Melchior Ray: They actually pulled out of China. One thing to add to that is they did also go through Covid. Covid was hard on all hospitality brands, but they finally decided that it was just too hard for them. And. And, you know, it's not like all of the home sharing businesses pulled out because there are several, both local brands, Tsujia and Chaozhou, and they did partnerships with other home sharing platforms around the world.

[00:15:18] Katherine Melchior Ray: So it's doable, but it's, you know, that Chinese market moves so fast. We think that the United States might move fast, but we have no idea. We have no.

[00:15:28] Nataly Kelly: Yeah, it's all relative. Yeah, it's all relative. Also, you know, you would think that organizations would do a lot more research of this type before going to all the trouble of investing and setting up operations in a new market. And it just maybe speaks to the power of consumer research and, you know, if you know what questions to ask, you could tease these things out ahead of making a big mistake and, you know, a financial investment that doesn't pay off. And, you know, as you were talking, I was thinking, yeah, I wonder how the CFO was thinking about that investment, because, you know, it obviously didn't yield quick ROI, and they would be thinking about that and wondering if they should maybe just invest a little more in upfront and then agile research, to your point, because if the market moves really quickly, which a lot of markets do now, especially certain segments of, like the US Market, I know younger generations are channel hopping, switching preferences, changing brand loyalty, like, very quickly, more than maybe we've seen before in this market. But it just makes. Makes me think the importance of testing regularly and checking in with consumers.

[00:16:33] Katherine Melchior Ray: Absolutely. Has even grown more. Absolutely. I mean, you know, we. So I teach this class and I have the students explain what they think did wrong.

[00:16:44] Katherine Melchior Ray: And I have the students, you know, they can answer it however they want to answer it, but some of them have gone and done their own research into China overnight because we have several of them are Chinese. And it's really interesting because Airbnb, to their credit did do research. They knew what the challenges were. But you know, sometimes you ask a question through research and you get an answer and you're interpreting it in a certain way, but the way the person is saying it has a different intent. And that's where culture is so difficult because they might say, well, you know, I don't really trust it.

[00:17:14] Katherine Melchior Ray: And an American might say, oh yeah, yeah, we, we encountered that too when we first started here. But we really changed the home sharing market because it's true, right? You're going to really trust to stay. Originally we're going to trust to stay in a stranger's home, but we didn't, I think they didn't quite realize the depth of that. So had they gone back in to your point and gone back in time and time again, it's like, so how is this working?

[00:17:38] Katherine Melchior Ray: What are the issues? What can we do? And to that point, some of the other companies that are doing home sharing are doing third party verified listings. Right. And hiring outside cleaners to be able to mitigate this issue of trust and not wanting to clean themselves.

[00:17:54] Nataly Kelly: Wow, that is such a fascinating example. Thank you for sharing that, Katherine. I have another question for you. What are the most important skills that can help both insights and marketers develop empathy for local customers?

[00:18:07] Katherine Melchior Ray: Well, I think that the, you know, it's hard to say one skill, because what one skill crosses all these different aspects we have to learn about.

[00:18:15] Katherine Melchior Ray: But the one that I think does that is cultural intelligence. So CQ is how we explain it and we talk a lot about it, as you know, in our book, because it starts with a mindset. You know, it really starts about being open minded and realizing things are not going to be the way they are at home in a foreign market. If they are, great, but if you start with the premise that they will be, then you're not able to actually even see and appreciate what those fine nuances may be. So cultural intelligence has multiple parts to it, but it starts with awareness.

[00:18:47] Katherine Melchior Ray: It starts with the mindset, sorry. And then the awareness. So being aware of yourself and someone else. And you can't do that if you don't have the mindset. And then there's a lot of learning.

[00:19:00] Katherine Melchior Ray: You don't have to be an expert in every culture. That's what I like about this notion of cultural intelligence because it's really a capability at its heart and then it moves into knowledge and then skill. Because once you combine the attitude, an awareness, some knowledge about the culture and you then practice and you develop what is called culture flexing, to be able to go from one to another. Then you create this fluidity of being able to really quickly recognize, oh, you know, I'm talking to someone and, and you're, you're not saying, you're, you're not trying to tell me what I think I'm hearing. And so then you get suspicious and so then you might ask further questions.

[00:19:39] Katherine Melchior Ray: And I think that's where, you know, it's the core of, of research, is to ask more questions.

[00:19:45] Nataly Kelly: Yes. And it's so hard when you're a global brand to do that when you're in multiple markets without taking the time to really understand and constantly reevaluate, constantly reassess. Because as you, you know, you've given plenty of examples so far in this episode of, you know, situations where it's a nuance, it's a small thing, it's not something you might have predicted. You know, I remember to your point about the question.

[00:20:09] Nataly Kelly: I ran customer satisfaction survey when I worked at HubSpot and it's a very well known methodology in the United States called Net Promoter Score, NPS. And they asked that question of how likely would you be to recommend this product to a friend? And I remember seeing really low scores in the German market for one of the questions. And I was so confounded by this because the feedback was the opposite in terms of the quality of the UI localization and the experience. And when I looked at some of the verbatims, because there's a question that says, why, why do you rate it this way?

[00:20:42] Nataly Kelly: Some people said things like, well, I wouldn't recommend it to a friend because I don't have a friend who needs this software. It was very, it was so practical and so literal, like, of course I'm not going to recommend this to any of my friends. That was how the question was interpreted. And so if we had acted just on those findings, we would have been mistaken because our perception would have been that the customers weren't happy. It was just the way the question was asked and how it was perceived.

[00:21:09] Nataly Kelly: So it's another example of those things that you might not think to ask like Airbnb going into China.

[00:21:15] Katherine Melchior Ray: I mean, there, you know, there's so many stories of that kind of thing where you're trying to create a global standard of how like a Net Promoter Score or how many FTEs per retail store, if you have them. Right. And that has cultural significance. So at one point when I was Vice President of Marketing for Louis Vuitton in Japan, its largest and most profitable market, Paris was working on a efficiency approach to kind of reduce the number of salespeople per square meter.

[00:21:39] Katherine Melchior Ray: And they came over to Japan, where they said, oh, you know, you have way too many staff in these stores. We're using our metrics from Europe. We think we can lower it about 30%. The Japanese were aghast. And I was like, oh, we're gonna have to go back to step one of trying to explain to all of these French finance people that the Japanese have a very different standard of service.

[00:22:00] Katherine Melchior Ray: You know, you can't just wait until someone wants to see you. You know, everyone. You walk into a Japanese store, and I'm sure everyone who's been to Japan has experienced this, and people go, irashaimase. Right? Everyone turns to the person who's walked in and says something, and you can't, you know, if you only have a few people there, they don't feel like there is enough service.

[00:22:18] Katherine Melchior Ray: And so it's really very cultural. And we had to work through all of the cultural issues before we could even get to the business issue.

[00:22:28] Nataly Kelly: That is so interesting. It reminds me of a small cultural detail, but one I think you'll appreciate based on that Japan retail example. Living in Ecuador for so long, I learned the habit of always saying good afternoon when you walk into a store and always saying, you know, until later or goodbye when you leave. And I didn't realize I picked that habit up so much that I do it in the United States in every store I go to, and my kids picked it up from me, and someone was with us recently and said, oh, it's so nice how you always say goodbye to the last person from the shop that you're leaving. And I realized, oh, that's something that they learned from me, because that's common in Ecuador, where I lived.

[00:23:10] Nataly Kelly: So it's funny how these habits trans. Transpose and translate across cultures.

[00:23:16] Katherine Melchior Ray: Absolutely. Wow. There's some. You know, there's some kind. Sometimes that can be an advantage to bring certain behaviors back from one culture into another culture because no one's really expecting it. So to that point, suddenly the store staff are like, oh, that's so kind of you, because they're used to someone being giving greetings.

[00:23:39] Nataly Kelly: Right, exactly. The standard of service just moved across cultures in that situation.

[00:23:42] Nataly Kelly: Well, Katherine, I am loving this interview and learning from you, and I can't wait for our listeners to hear this, but I need to move on to our Lightning Round segment. So let's move on to our Lightning Round. I'm going to ask you a few quick hitting consumer insights related questions. So my first question is, how do you instill a marketing mindset into teams?

[00:24:04] Katherine Melchior Ray: You gotta get curious. You need to get curious about who's your customer. Like when I was talking about the Nike story, right. As insights, showing you who they are, what their needs are and really want to embrace them, be their champion. I think that's the beginning, that curiosity to want to know and want to know more.

[00:24:27] Katherine Melchior Ray: And what does this service product offering play in their lives.

[00:24:30] Nataly Kelly: Next question. What role does cultural intelligence play in successful international marketing?

[00:24:35] Katherine Melchior Ray: Well, this is really at the core of our book because winning brands think global, but they feel local. And I've really gotten to appreciate this fact that brand, that values are universal, right? We're all human, but how those values show up differs across culture. So cultural intelligence really helps brands go beyond that simple notion of we're just going to cut and paste it over here to truly understand what matters to people in different markets.

[00:25:01] Nataly Kelly: That's great. Thank you. So my next question, what's one thing that Brand Global Adapt Local taught you that you use every day?

[00:25:11] Katherine Melchior Ray: Mm. For me, it's about the power of relationships. So we talk a lot about brands and their relationship with their consumer, but it's also about teams who are working globally and the importance of the relationships between teams across departments, of course, but then also across cultures themselves. Because if you can learn to work with your own team internally in a different market, you actually gain insight into that market and the consumer as well. That's such great advice.

[00:25:38] Nataly Kelly: That's wonderful. Thank you. A big question. How do brands build trust?

[00:25:44] Katherine Melchior Ray: This is another one of my favorites because trust we. Trust is so important in a brand because a brand is delivering a brand promise. So, you know, marketing is to create demand for something. And that logo, that website, that store, that offering is all channeling some kind of a promise. But what is trust? And the best definition that I heard is that it's comprised of three things.

[00:26:10] Katherine Melchior Ray: One is shared values. And this is why that aspect of universal values is so important. The other aspect is open and honest communication in both directions. You have to feel that what the brand is telling you is reliable. And you have to feel like you can go back to them if you have a problem, that they're going to be there for you.

[00:26:31] Katherine Melchior Ray: And finally, and the third part is a history of promises kept. That brand has to deliver against that promise. If it does and you are able to get the work done that you want to do, then you start to believe in the promise and you start to trust that brand. And so it's a, it's a virtual cycle of those three values that turn around and around, around and build. Love it.

[00:26:53] Nataly Kelly: Love it. Okay, so my next question is, what's your favorite creative local adaptation that you've seen from a global brand?

[00:27:00] Katherine Melchior Ray: I wish I had one here. I think KitKat is probably one of my all-time favorites, because they have a way of doing something that we talk about in the book called freedom within a framework. So they have a brand framework of certain aspects of it that are unchangeable around the world. But within and around that framework, local teams are allowed to be creative. So, you know, I spent nine years living in Japan. I spent many more years going back and forth and always I love to bring KitKat bars back from Japan because they have all kinds of flavors that we don't have in the States. You know, there is matcha and azuki bean and cherry for cherry blossom, sakura season. And so there are all kinds of different flavors.

[00:27:42] Katherine Melchior Ray: But it's not just Japan. They do this in the 14 countries in which they're sold. So we have a great story about what happened in Malaysia right after, right after Covid, when they had. When the consumer taste was changing and they had a supply chain shortage. And the team came up with a really amazing idea that solved both of them in one innovation.

[00:28:02] Nataly Kelly: Wow, I love that story. And I love KitKat too. Who doesn't, with so many flavors, something for everyone.

[00:28:10] Katherine Melchior Ray: Yeah. Have a break.

[00:28:12] Nataly Kelly: Need a break. Have a KitKat.

[00:28:14] Katherine Melchior Ray: Yeah.

[00:28:15] Nataly Kelly: So that wraps up this episode of the Inside Insights podcast. Thank you so much to Katherine Melchior Ray, author of Brand Global Adapt Local, with me right there.

[00:28:27] Katherine Melchior Ray: Written by Nataly and me, both of us together.

[00:28:29] Nataly Kelly: Katherine is also the president at Globe Ally. And thank you for joining us, Katherine. If you'd like to contact Katherine, you can find a link to her LinkedIn profile in our show notes or at InsideInsightsPod.com. If you haven't subscribed yet and want a regular stream of research and insights knowledge in your podcast feed, hit that subscribe button in your podcast app or follow us on YouTube. Okay, that's all for today, but until next time, thank you for listening to Inside Insights.

[00:28:58] Nataly Kelly: Bridging the gap between marketing strategy and consumer insights